Podcast Episodes

November 30, 2023

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In this episode, Wendy speaks with philosopher and cognitive scientist Hanne De Jaegher. Hanne was influenced by Francisco Varela’s ideas from an early age, and has been working to extend enactive theories of mind into social contexts. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• roots in Varela’s work and an early interest in thinking;
• sense-making and embodiment as foundational to cognition;
• how our habits and models fit (or don’t) with our experience;
• participatory sense-making and the primacy of interaction;
• how interpersonal dynamics can have a life of their own;
• loving and knowing, letting others be;
• over- vs. underdetermining (how our projections of others shape interactions);
• emotional capacity and dementia;
• understanding autistic people from their own side;
• the need for people in dominant positions to listen;
• the importance of silence in dialogue;
• problems with the way social media platforms discourage interaction;
• interactions within one person;
• synthesis and breakdown;
• tension between self and interdependence (creating boundaries);
• and applying these ideas to our relationship with nature.

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November 16, 2023

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In this episode, Wendy speaks with musician, contemplative, researcher, and activist Grant Jones. Grant is working to develop and implement contemplative and liberatory tools for underserved populations. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• blending music, psychology, contemplation, and activism;
• music and mindfulness for healing race-based anxiety;
• collaborating with Lama Rod Owens, Esperanza Spalding, and others;
• the absence of research on black music;
• music medicine vs. music therapy;
• pleasure activism as a form of disruption;
• balancing structure and freedom;
• the Black Lotus Collective;
• links between psychedelics and meditation;
• potential benefits and harm of psychedelic treatment, and how race plays in;
• the power of music to transcend language and culture;
• balancing identity with non-self;
• and letting go, having fun, and not being too serious.

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November 2, 2023

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In this episode, Wendy speaks with psychosocial oncology researcher Linda Carlson. Linda has pioneered the application of mindfulness and contemplative practice for cancer patients, focusing on both psychological and biological outcomes. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• her path to integrating psychology, mindfulness, and cancer;
• early clinical trials and positive outcomes;
• how and why meditation can help with the stress of cancer;
• problems with battle metaphors related to cancer;
• opportunities to re-evaluate self and identity;
• connecting with boundlessness and interdependence;
• living well vs. living long;
• study design and control groups in meditation research;
• effects of mindfulness on cellular aging (telomeres);
• media coverage of meditation research;
• the power of preference in interventions;
• sneak preview of gene expression results;
• impacts on inflammation;
• increasing accessibility and diversity;
• working towards structural change in health care;
• and building an academic society for contemplative research.

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October 19, 2023

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In this episode, Wendy speaks with social psychologist and contemplative researcher Paul Condon. Paul’s work integrates psychological theory with the Buddhist contemplative tradition, looking at meditation through the lens of attachment theory. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• his long interest in the intersection between Buddhism and psychology;
• measuring compassion in the real world;
• meditation’s effects on prosocial behavior and relating to suffering;
• barriers to compassion;
• the relevance of vulnerability and safety to compassion;
• understanding secure and insecure attachment;
• shifting our attachment style:
• how contemplative practice can help develop our secure base;
• security as adaptability;
• limitations of viewing meditation as self-help and individual effort;
• the relational starting point of meditation;
• open vs. closed secular contexts;
• identifying a caring moment or benefactor;
• the power of mental simulation;
• changes he’s noticed from practice;
• and what these practices can offer in our current moment as a society.

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October 5, 2023

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In this episode, Wendy speaks with cognitive scientist, contemplative practitioner, and ballet dancer Marieke Van Vugt. Marieke is a pioneer in studying mind wandering and meditation through computer modeling, and is also advancing participatory research through her collaborations with Tibetan monastics. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• her braided interests in meditation, dance, and cognitive science;
• computer modeling of mind and meditation;
• exploring distraction, mind wandering, and becoming aware;
• how thoughts can get “stuck” in our minds;
• creating a meditating computer;
• the relevance of stuck thoughts to various mental disorders;
• trauma through the lens of predictive models of mind;
• analytical meditation and Tibetan monastic debate;
• collaborating with monastics in research;
• humility and fluidity of mind;
• re-thinking the tasks used in cognitive science;
• the phenomenon of brain synchrony;
• dance and embodiment;
• the roots of thinking in the body;
• problems with abstraction in science;
• curiosity vs. the critical mind in ballet;
• flow, responsiveness, and compassion;
• and advice to young scholars.

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